First post, guess what question? ;-)

Posted: 31 January 2010 06:32 PM

Hi guys, first time poster here and lot of questions!.

Have 2 weeks of snowboarding under my belt, started a year ago, able to link turns, sometime quite tightly and fast, starting to practice ollies and switch, not yet completely able to ride with opposite stance (I am goofy), entered park few times for some easy jump and box, spent good time off piste, which I adore. Not scared of anything (almost!), i would define my level between postbeginner and intermediate, if possible. I am looking for a board which -being reliable and durable- would allow me to improve fast, carve precisely, be stable while fast on the flat and wherever, link fast and tight turns, enjoy a lot of powder and off piste, enjoy some trick on the flat or while on the piste, and enter the park from time to time.
Have always rented my gear, both the board and boots were salomon, 157 the board. I am 1,81m (5’11’‘) and between 69-73 kg. Foot is 43/9,5 or 10 but the boot was 45! I dont think the board was wide.

Now I am thinking of buying my stuff, as I will also be able to snowboard more often. I read a lot about the Burton Custom (I saw it like the Volkswagen Golf among cars!), so I was thinking to get a 158, not wide: I am not interested in doing park so often, but I am looking for an all mountain board.
Then someone told me that the Custom is too much for my level, and started reading a bit more.
(Even though I am willing to buy a reliable board to keep for as many years as possible, I’d prefer to struggle a bit more at the beginning rather than changing the board after a year). Also, I understood there are other brands charging less than Burton for the same quality.

Given my level and my preferences, I understood I do not need a reverse Camber or a particular rocker, right?

I read reviews and checked websites during the last couple of days, and instead of shortlisting I am even more confused!

The burton board finder suggests: Joystick, Easy Livin, o Custom V Rocker. Also, using the board finder on Ride website, it suggested a 161 board. Isnt’ too long for me (1,81/70kg)?

So the boards I am considering are the following:

  * Nitro Team 159 (I was pulling the trigger on this, then I read a bad review of the Nitro Team Art Attack and changed my mind)
  * K2 Podium 159
  * Burton Custom 158 (I’d also buy the EST Burton binding, which I understood cannot use with other boards…) or the Custom V Rocker 159
  * Ride Machete (and the Concept, even though I dont think I understood the differences between the UL and TMS)

I had also considered:
  * k2 darkstar,
  * Rossignol Angus.

My questions for you (considering that where I live I really do not have chance to test boards):
1- is 158 ok for me? should I get wide?
2- which board do you think I should get? is the Custom too much? how these boards listed above differ from each other? if they were all the same price, which one should I get?
3- what about the Custom V rocker?
4- how does a forgiving board differs from a board more suited to experts? what means for a board being “soft” vs “aggressive”? The burton website shows level from 1 to 10, and the Custom is 5, so I thought it was ok. While the K2 site doesn’t offer such a ranking. How is the K2 Podium for this criteria?

Again, I got the feeling that K2 and Ride are a bit better brands, but wonder if this is true or just my prejudice.
An alternative could be to get a second hand last season Custom, or 2 seasons ago, no ICS.

Thanks really really a lot in advance

Posted: 31 January 2010 10:06 PM

Hi there lorcar, we’re stoked to help you with your decision!

The difference between beginner and expert boards are mostly stiffness and general architecture.
With beginner (forgiving) boards you will find it easier to initiate a turn and harder to catch an edge while with the more advanced decks you will experience less chatter, a more stable ride in carves, ..

Concerning length I personally wouldn’t go much longer than 159. I am around your size and weight and I got a 159 and didn’t want to ride something much longer.
Regarding your boot size, I would definitely bring my bindings and boots to the shop and mount it to check if a regular wide board really is okay with your boots/bindings. Too much overhang kills your whole setup! (check the basics section in the snowboard guide for more information about it)

As you said you are riding pow rather often and enjoy doing piste-tricks. Reading this, to me it seems as a rocker (-hybrid) would not fail on your desires.
Maybe you want to throw a look at the K2 Turbodream. Seems to me as it would be a good ride for you.

The Ride Machete, too, is a great ride which has also won an award in the same contest the Rossignol Angus scored 2nd, I think.
Rich wanted to post a review of the Angus written by Tom these days. I’m sure it will be online soon, make sure to check that one out!

If you look at some threads opened before yours, you will be able to find some discussion about the Darkstar, I think. Just read through a bit~

I’m almost sure I didn’t answer all of your questions, but maybe you can work with this a bit, already..

Posted: 31 January 2010 10:57 PM

Hi Lorcar,

Tobi is spot on with suggesting a hybrid rocker/camber deck. And I think he’s right suggesting the Rossignol Amptek / Nidecker Camrock type hybrid where the board is cambered between the feet and the tip and tail are rockered. THese boards carve hard, initiate turns easily, float in pow and are buttery and forgiving off kickers.

Rossignol sent Tom (S-R’s head of testing) an angus to test this week (I’ll be posting the review tomorrow), and he’s also been at the Nidecker test in Les Crosets today. Although they’re pretty similar takes on that style of hybrid rocker camber, Tom was blown away by Amptek, but thought Camrock was a little too loose underfoot, he took out the Nidecker Legacy but thought it was too pow focused. Unfortunately for you the Angus is kind of intermediate plus.. shame they’re not releasing the Rossi Taipan this year (check our rossi 2010/11 preview, they’re releasing an intermediate deck with amptek called the taipan). So if you’re going for a intermediate board with guts, go for the Angus, you can get a mid wide 158 with a 26.1 cm waist, which will be wide enough for your feet. If you want a slightly softer ride with similar technology I’d look at the Signal Omni 159 or 156. These boards are quite a bit softer, but still have tons of pop and with a waist of 25.3, they’ll be wide enough for your feet.

The Custom is still quite an advance board, you’d be fine on it, I’m sure, but I think Burton are quite over priced this season, especially in the UK.. I’ve heard great things about the V-Rocker but I haven’t tested it. Tom thought the Custom was great.

I think you asked about the difference between the Concept UL and TMS. Well I’ve ridden the Concept, it’s a very smooth refined board, really capable charging around the whole mountain, but quite understated. A bit like a GT car… nice smooth suspension, a deluxe ride, but with a fierce engine under the bonnet that’ll thrash the pants off most other boards. The TMS is meant to be quite a stiff advanced ride, for those who like to charge evrything… the realm of advanced riders.

Oh… before you buy your board… get your boots so you know what the sole width is… like Tobi says overhang is a great way to ruin the perfect set up. And like Tobi says, I wouldn’t go above 159-ish, you’re quite light.

Rich

Posted: 01 February 2010 04:04 AM

Guys,
thanks really a lot for these kinds and very helpful advices. I’ll spend tomorrow checking the boards you suggest, in particular K2 Turbodream and the Angus.
Today I read some great stuff about the Nitro Team GULLWING, and was considering this as well. At the same time though, I was thinking that being my first board, I would probably not understand all the innovations occurring now about rocker, camber, reverse camber, etc. So probably a more popular, proven model would be just fine.
At the same time though, I would avoid buying a board which I could outgrow in a couple of years. For that reason I would still consider a board like the angus
So my short list right now (but open to lot of changes!) is:
nitro team, nitro team gullwing, k2 turbodream, rossignol angus, ride machete.
I should also consider how easy it will be for me to find these boards. I will need to buy them online, most likely, a place which would ship to italy.
thanks really a lot again

Posted: 01 February 2010 05:46 AM

Guys
I started reading more on rocker and reverse camber, and on your guide I found:
“Saying Reverse camber boards provide a loose skateboard-like feel is a bit of a cliché, but it’s the best way to describe the ride. You can really relax riding reverse camber snowboards; straight lining just doesn’t feel as twitchy as on cambered boards. To say reverse cambered boards don’t carve well and grip poorly isn’t really true, they carve ok it’s just you don’t get the lively feel you get from a cambered board. The real advantages of reverse camber boards are evident in the park”.

Somewhere I also read a guy reviewing the Nitro Gullwing system, he says “One note about the sidecut. It’s different from alot of others. It’s very straight from the tips but has a lot of bend between the feet. This means entering and exiting turns are very stable, BUT you have spot in the middle of the turn where the board just whips around”

I’d love to carve laser-like and turn precisely, feeling stable at high speed. Does that imply I should stick to ‘traditional’ camber?

Could you shed some light on how a non-traditional camber makes a board turn?
thanks really a lot in advance

Posted: 01 February 2010 08:25 AM

Easily said, the negative tension (or whatever is the correct word “Vorspannung”) on a reverse camber deck (Rocker) leads to the board losing some edge hold in exchange for some more forgiveness and playfulness. If you look at the graphics Rich made for the rocker part in the basic snowboard guide section, you will understand why.
That’s why rocker hybrids are probably the best choice for you. They are not having the very best edge hold you would get from some traditional cambered snowboard but, especially as an early intermediate, you would probably not even notice a big difference and a rocker hybrid will really help you on your powder runs and piste tricks.

I didn’t test any Gullwing board yet, so I can’t really say anything about this very specific rocker deck. But with the Omni or the Angus, I never heard anyone saying something like that. Probably quite subjective, as well.

Cheers

Posted: 03 February 2010 12:11 AM

If a board is washing out mid carve it’s probably because the board is really soft between the bindings. I found the same problem on the Smokin MIP which is a cambered deck.. so it’s not exclusive to rockered boards. If you buy a hybrid cambered between the feet, like amptek or camrock you retain the torsional stiffness between the feet to carve.

Rich