Does this board even exist?

Posted: 28 March 2011 02:40 AM

Kind snowboard review community,

I would like your opinon on a question that is bugging me. What freestyle board do you buy for a 13st 9lbs, 6ft guy with 35+ weeks of freeride snowboarding experience and effectively 0 weeks freestyle experience that is:
= approx. 152cm long,
= stable/damp enough to keep up with advanced skiers on the piste
= softer than a 156 K2 Jibpan for butters and presses

Just in case you are interested the background to this question is below.

——-The back story———-

Over the last 7 years, I have totally neglected trying to learn any freestyle. This is a mixture of being lucky and always having good off-piste conditions, tending to only go away for a week with mates, and being a little bit of wimp. Recently, I started to feel like I have hit a bit of a wall. This was particularly highlighted last year when I had my first week of really really bad snow conditions across a week. So last year, I made the decision to get a park board and get into the park.

Not wanting to lose out on cruising the mountain, I settled on buying a 156 2010 K2 Jibpan. This has been an awesome board all over the mountain. However, it has been awesome in a freeride way. Apart from the deepest powder, for which I have a 160 Grip, it handles everything in a fun manner. However my buttering, jibbing and spins have not really improved, not for want of trying, I just find it takes a lot of body and leg effort to do anything moderately freestyle.

This made me wonder did I make the wrong choice buying this board? Should I have gone totally freestyle and aimed for soft board that is around 152?  Or am I just being a big fail and should try harder? Probably bit of both, but that still leaves the question of which board?

Posted: 28 March 2011 08:52 AM

Hi Fatscot,

Tom rode the Jibpan a couple of years ago at the board test, he though it was one of the floppiest noodles he’d ever ridden - link here . I reckon a man of your experience and stature should be able to butter and tweak that board to destruction. I have a couple of quick questions. What boots and bindings are you using with the Jibpan? What angles and stance width are you running?

Freestyle riding will take time to get to grips with but widdening you stance and using a soft-ish boot and binding combination will help… after that it’s practice. I wouldn’t advice going down to a board size of 152 if you can avoid it, it really will constrict you to the park or buttering on the green runs.

Where you in France for your holiday this year?

Rich

Posted: 28 March 2011 01:20 PM

Hello Rich,

Before business, thanks for the help and nice site; particularly the group test videos, truely informative!

I was told that the version they rolled out for the board tests demo’s was a lot less stiff than the production version. The shop assistant at snow and rock, said that they changed the flex from soft freestyle board to soft all mountain board. I didn’t think it would be such a resounding bad workman. I truly think that the Jibpan was just stiff, approximately as stiff as my Salomon Grip, but as it is physically shorter easier to work. Hmm maybe, am I in complete denial!

In response to your questions, my setup is:

Boards = 2010 160 Salomon Grip, 2010 156 Jibpan
Boots = 2011 Salomon Pledge
Bindings = 2011 Union Contact Pros
Stance = I am forever tinkering with this, but the two that I end up riding the most at the moment are approximately:
25inches 15 and -15 or 23 inches 9 and +9
Next holiday = hopefully December 2011, Avoriaz or over to the US depending on money.

Thanks

Fats

Posted: 28 March 2011 02:43 PM

I’d heard rumours that they were changing the flex on the jibpan from the test model but i didn’t think they’d go with a completely different flex. But you own the board so you know what you’re riding and if you say it’s as firm as the GRIP then I’ll take your word for it. Still by advice would be to avoid going for something at the 152 mark, you’re man sized and 152 is far too small. I’d advise going for something around the length of your Jibpan… 155-156. Id also look at jib focused boards to give you some difference between you’re all mountain GRIP and your jib board. I’m a big fan of the Amplid Dopamine, it’s soft at the waist which means presses and butters are easy, but slightly stiffer and poppier at the nose and tail so it doesn’t fold up on choppy snow when you are charging and won’t wash out if you land a little tail heavy. If you are in the UK give Benny at Big Dreams a ring, if he’s got any left at this time in the season he’ll do you a good deal I’m sure. I’d also have a look at the Salomon Salvatore Sanchez 154 at a push, Arbor Westmark 156, forum Scallywag 155, Lib Tech Skate Banana 156. And if you want to ride uber soft check out the K2 WWW. As far as your stance goes try adding another inch or two and see how that works for your jibbing.

Posted: 28 March 2011 03:28 PM

Rich,

To be honest, I do not want to part with my Jibpan because of my inadequacies. But at the same time I feel I am running out of time, age wise so if I can cheat and buy a bit easier performance I am willing too. So when you put the flex changes into perspective like that and as my experience that sales reps are not necessarily the most accurate of sources for information, I am a torn. I am relieved cos I can keep the Jibpan but a little confused about why I struggle to bend the board even with all of my practise.

What the hell if it isnt working change it? So I will investigate the Amplid Dopamine. Is there anything else that you would change about my setup? The Pledges are a throw back to my freeriding preferences. Would a softer boot help?

On the stance front, I have maxed out the width on the Jibpan. But I find it just makes me very leaden in my actions. I visibly struggle to turn, press and ollie the board. 25 is the biggest I have been and still had relatively good performance.

Thanks for all your help Rich, it is good to chat about this with someone.

Stephen

Posted: 28 March 2011 04:05 PM

Hmmm yeah 25 inches is pretty wide. The benefit of going wider is that you sent to have more leverage for getting presses over and less nose to press, but for 6ft, 25inches would be considered a wide stance. I guess it would also consitute what you define as getting a good press. When I go riding with Mikee C (tester and FBBB head honcho) he’s got a crazy press even on stiff cambered boards and he’s a good couple of stones lighter than me.

A softer boot and binding combination might make your leg movements a little bit more free and natural. As my boots have loosened up over the season I’ve found that my freestyle riding has been much less effort.

If you’re finding the Jibpan a little too stiff, a softer board with less reinforcement, a more pronounced reverse camber and maybe a thinner core profile between the feet would help with pressing. Using a softer boot and binding combo might also help you to get your body in the right position more easily and fluidly when trying tricks.

Out of interest is your Jibpan cambered or rockered? I’ve looked at a couple of reviews of the non-test version and quite a few times I’ve read that the nose and tail are carboned up to the max for snappy powerful ollies, if that’s combined with camber I can understand whu you might be struggling with it.

Posted: 28 March 2011 09:19 PM

On the times I get the timing right, the snap from all the carbon is so aggressive the sudden extra height surprises me. That “live-wire” bouncy rebound feeling is one of the reasons that I love taking this board all over the mountain from carves on the piste to trenches of powder, just makes the board fun and lively, as opposed to damp. The Jibpan uses k2’s jib rocker, flat between the feet with rocker up to slightly blunt tips. Actually someone on a forum, might be the angrysnowboarder, stated that the new Fastplant was basically a jibpan with the new bambooya core.

Which would make the most significant difference soft boots or a different board? Do you have an opinion on which Salomon boot would be best?

Also, apart from the salvatore sanchez, they rest of the boards appear to be the same price? So as a differentiator which boards do you feel have the most adaptability, outside of the park?

fats

p.s. I bet you wished one of the other administrators picked this up.

Posted: 28 March 2011 09:52 PM

Ah well I’ve ridden the Fastplant and I didn’t find it too aggressive, but I think the Fastplant uses the natural pop of the bamboo with a touch of carbon instead of loading it up with a truck load of carbon. I found the fastplant enjoyed a good press but had a nice pop too.

I’ve just had a look at the Pledge boot and it’s definitely a freestyle boot designed for getting your freestyle thang on and the Contract Pros are definitely not a super stiff beast of a binding. I think these are a good freestyle package although perhaps on the more responsive side.

I tested the Dopamine about 4 weeks ago so it’s pretty fresh on my mind. It’s stable, damp, holds a nice edge but most importantly the waist is soft so it feels very jibby and easy to press. It sounds like what you are after. The reiforcement is very basic using soley biax glass but it’s definitely not a noodle, if you want a bendy haribo board then try the K2 WWW.

Posted: 29 March 2011 12:26 AM

Hahaha, when I bought the Pledge from snow and rock in Covent garden the pledge was described as a Softer freeride boot. I had mentioned to the guy that I wanted to move towards a freestyle boot, I previously was using F24s which are like 5 on the Salomon Flex scale. His suggestion was the pledge, 4 on the scale. His view was the impact of boots was minimal and the better you get the stiffer they get. So in my case keep with boots that allow you to do what you know well and adapt your freestyle skills to meet the difference. This whole time I thought my boots were stiff only to find out that they are more freestyle. Definitely proves that choosing gear is far more an art than science.

Assuming that money was not an issue, would you still keep the pledges?

Anyway at least after all of this I have a good view about my gear, and a little bit of a plan; step 1 speak to Benny @ Big Dreams. Step 2 go practise till I faint. Step 3 ignore sales reps.

Posted: 29 March 2011 02:21 AM

Having just skimmed the surface of this thread I will comment on stance for freestyle riding in my opinion.

Originally I started with a wide stance but I’ve found a narrower stance has helped me feel more confident in the park.  If your stance is really wide it makes it really stable but harder to rotate.  By keeping your feet closer together you make the board more unstable and willing to rotate and spin…  it’s a bit harder to control presses but it makes up for it in box work and learning to spin off jumps.

I think I’m around the 23” stance width on my 155 K2 Parkstar and I’m 5’11”, so it’s small but not affecting my general riding skills thus far.

Posted: 29 March 2011 09:14 AM

Yeah wide stances are renowned for making spins harder, that’s why back in the day peeps like Daniel Frank used to rock micro stances. But it does make pressing easier and you feel a little more planted. It really is what you feel fomfortable with… Tom’s riding a 26” stance at the moment… which is enormous considering he’s 5’8”.

I think your 3 step plan is a good one. Give Benny a call, the guy is a legend. When I lived in Dorset he used to put so much time and effort into the local scene. He’ll be able to give you some great advice on whether picking up the dopamine will aid your freestyle, they also sell Salomon so I’m sure he’ll be able to make comparisons with the Salvatore Sanchez and the Salomonder. He’s also not the kind of guy to give you the hard sell, he’ll just be happy to give you some advice.

Rich

Posted: 29 March 2011 09:37 PM

It seems that there is definitely a balancing act between having enough width to be stable but with losing the ability to move fast and dynamically. Would a softer board and boots support a larger riding stance? i.e. because they are more flexible it is easier to move? Or once again is it personal preference?

By the way Rich, this has been awesome, thank you very much for all of your advice. I feel hugely more optimistic about it all. I will follow the plan and hopefully at the end of it is another 7 years of FUN FUN FUN on a board.