2nd Year Rider - Needs the Board to take my game to the next level!

Posted: 01 October 2010 06:51 AM

My 30-second story is - started on skis at 4, committed until 16 then stopped to play basketball.  Picked up boarding last year (now I’m 32), it’s been… consuming me to say the least!  I’d say I became an intermediate snowboarder in one year.  Teaching myself.  Grabbed a 158 Stepchild park board on sale last year because I got tired of renting.  I wear a size 12 (US) boot and have Burton Infidel bindings.  I live in Michigan so the runs I see on average are VERY short and not very challenging. Icy and hard pack conditions.  I plan on spending a solid 2 weeks out west this year.  I need a board that can handle my hometown conditions but that will allow me to progress and push myself when I hit the real thing in Colorado/Utah.

I’ve done my research thanks to this incredible site!  I’ve put together a decent list the past 2 weeks but this site allowed me to do my most thorough research to date!  I actually have 23 on my list because I don’t accurately understand the differences yet but I’ll try and narrow it to a few selections here. 

What do I want:  I’m 6’2” - 210lbs (which I think is about 95 kg).  I picked up a 158 Stepchild park board on sale last year because I was tired of renting and didn’t know better what to buy.  However, I only want to ride blue and black groomers, some trees and eventually graduate to some deep pow.  You will never will see me in the park.  I’m a little sketchy on what width I need.  My 58 now is a 251 width.  I ride with a slight forward stance but don’t know the angle.  It’s very modest.  I’ve never had any issue with toe drag but I’m not hard carving enough yet I think to put myself at risk.  However, I’d like this purchase to be a board I can grow into and master over a 2-3 year window.  I can take a few lumps today to become a better boarder tomorrow.  Ok, I’m considering at this point the following (I’ll give you the length and width too):

Amplid Creamer 162 x 251
Bataleon Omni 163 x 256
Capita Black Death 162 x 259
Jones Flagship or Mountain Twin – Size TBD
K2 Turbo Dream – Size TBD
Never Summer SL / Raptor / F1
Nitro Pantera 163 x 258
Rossignol OneMagTek 163 x 258

Sorry, that’s like 10 decks!  So hard to narrow it down.  Sorry for throwing so much out there!  Just want to really push myself this year and want to make sure I’m outfitted to maximize my potential!

Cheers!

Cal

Posted: 01 October 2010 11:07 PM

Hey Cal, welcome!

I have a similar background to you…  minus the skiing and basketball part.  I’m 32 and picked it up last season again and am totally hooked!

First thing to do if you haven’t already done so is to read the basics section under the snowboard guides…  this will show you pics of a board that is too narrow among other things and give you a good dose on length and snowboard profiles (of which there are like 20 probably).

The other big thing you mentioned is your shoe size, a size 12 boot will require a wide board.  As you become more proficient with hard carving heel and toe drag will literally stop your progression at that point.

A couple of boards that I know off the top of my head in wides are: K2 Turbo Dream and Rossignol One Magtek.  Of those two boards I have a personal crush on the Rossignol One Magtek.  I rode the OneMag last season and it’s a beast of a board, I was beat up after riding it but I wasn’t used to the mountains like we have here in the Rockies.  Rossi added their Amptek rocker on the board so it should make the ride more forgiving this year, probably one of the best bang for your buck boards of the season.

Never Summer Heritage X is a wide board that covers a few different disciplines to also add that in the mix.

So hopefully between the guide and some of those suggestions will get the ball rolling for you a bit better and shorten up the list of possible candidates.

Posted: 04 October 2010 04:54 PM

Shop Rider, thanks for the input bro!  I think more than anyone in any forum you’ve given me the most sound advice.  I checked out a few shops out of town over the weekend getting input, checking boards, boots etc, and the 3 boards you recommended are 3 of the 4 I’m giving consideration too.  In order my choices so far are:

1. K2 Turbo Dream - 160 x 263
2. Never Summer Heritage - 163 x 268
3. Rossignol One Mag Tek - 161 x 264
4. Capita Black Death - 162 x 259

I’m leaning towards the Turbo Dream because it always seems to be recommended for this kind of riding and I have yet to read one bad review. The ony immediate drawback is that from what I read I felt I should be on something a bit longer, more like a 162. I’m also trying to zero in on the best width for me. The boot I’m considering is a 13 and I am planning on riding with a modest forward stance, just a few degrees above zero. I want to make sure I’m not on TOO wide of a board.

Any final opinons on the above boards, lengths and widths would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Posted: 04 October 2010 06:51 PM

2cm difference in deck length (160 to 162) will not give you any major if at all noticable difference in your riding experience, so I wouldn’t mind that.
The TurboDream is a real dream in the pow for sure, for speeding down groomers I’d say the MagTek (161) or Heritage (163) would be better suited, though. Maybe the Heritage would be the right call as you could surely ride a 163 and I mean who else ships decks with a 3 year warranty included?!

In the end you’ll be happy with any of the decks you mentioned, just go with one of them and you’ll never look back!

Posted: 04 October 2010 11:07 PM

I’ve had a good look through this post, Reloaded and Zoryfl have definitely made some top suggestions. If I was going to make a suggestion, it would be the Jones Mountain Twin 164W. It’s a medium / firm flexing board, maybe a 6 1/2 out of 10 so it’s stiff enough for charging but also pretty forgiving and progressive enough to help you through the intermediate stage. The 26.3 cm waist should be ok for your boots because the stance option is wide and the sidecut is -ish tight so there will be enough width at your feet (I’d probably go for +15 on the front and -9 or -12 on the back foot and go from there). The benfits of the Camrock profile are that it’s easy to initaite and exit carves, deals with choppy and soft snow by lifting the start of the effective edge out of the snow and makes buttering around that little bit easier. The reason I’m suggesting the MT over the Rossi One is that it uses a mellower form of magnetraction which works almost as well in icy conditions but is a little less noticeable, which I think is a good thing as an intermediate.

Rich

Posted: 05 October 2010 12:58 AM

Interesting take on the stance.  I’m certainly going to have to give that a try.  In year one I didn’t play with my stance at all, something I’m looking forward to toying with in year two.

I was very intrigued by the Jones line.  Similarly to the NS line, its seems their primary motivation is the creation of a solid freeride board.  Maybe catered a bit to backcountry riding which is still a few years away for me!  Anyhow, I’m having a hard time finding anyone that carries this board so I’m relying completely on the limited reviews I’ve found online.  That was probably the only reason I did not include the MT or the Flagship in my top 3 or 4.

Posted: 05 October 2010 07:18 AM

The stance makes quite the difference!

A good investment is a small tool to take on the hill to adjust your bindings…  play with it for a couple runs till you have it dialled.  I run a +15/-12 and it works well.

Posted: 05 October 2010 12:47 PM

Another thing I remembered was your boot size, you said you are a 12 but you are considering a 13?

DO NOT SIZE UP!  Snowboard boots are technical, they need to be snug AKA a tight fit.  Too many times in the shop already I have people come in and ask for boots in their sneaker size…  that’s a problem beginning right there.

If you boots are roomy you’ll have a bad monkey on your back called heel lift…  if you can lift your heel noticeably with your boots laced up it’s too big!  All that excessive lift will mean less response and more calf pain/tension.

A proper fitting boot is one where your toes “just” touch the end of the boot laced up.  There should be no hot spots (read pain) walking around with the boots for a few minutes.  Last point when you flex your knee so that it is over your toes you should feel like your toes are coming away from the front of the boot AND your heel should remain in contact with the sole.  That is a perfect boot.

On top of that I recommend insoles, we sell $600 hockey skates and even the insoles in that are no match to Superfeet (which I use and recommend green, unless you got flat feet which blue is better).  Add a good technical alpine sock (most-wicking material and friction-reducing polyester blends) and viola…  happy feet and a kick ass time on the mountain.

Posted: 05 October 2010 06:56 PM

Thanks for everyone’s advice!  I have one last issue I’m stuggling with.  I’ve decided the NS Heritage X is my first choice.  I called the shop I saw this board at in Chicago because I wanted to check to it’s availability in my size. Had pretty much dialed in the 163W but the guy on the phone actually recommended the 159W, despite my weight being 210 WITHOUT gear. (It just happened to be the only size they had in stock!)  He said with the R/C technology, it actually takes about 5 cm off the required size. I emailed NS to ask which board they’d put me in, the 59 or the 63, and they guy said it’s all personal preference. So not much help there. I don’t want to lose too much control going smaller. Am I overthinking this? Is a 159W actually a good size for me in a board that has this technology or should I stick with the 163W?

Posted: 05 October 2010 07:03 PM

Hey Reloaded, thanks for the advice on the boot size.  It’s funny, this whole process started this season with me looking for boots.  It wasn’t until I started that research that I realized I wasn’t on the proper deck. 

I wore a 12 (US) last year, one of the low-end Burtons.  Don’t know the name off hand.  I think size wise they were good, despite that I wear a 13 tennis shoe.  I got similar advice, the toe should just barely touch.  They were so uncomfortable though that it really did ruin my riding experience by the end of the season.  Everything I’ve read online is that you just need to try on as many pairs as possible and pick the most comfortable.  If that’s true, the boot I’ve found most comfortable to this point is the Burton Ambush, but it was a 13, I couldn’t fit the 12, my toe curled.  I don’t really want to size up, but I want comfort.  I know I also need a relatively stiff boot for the kind of riding I want to do.  I’m not sure how to measure that just by feel since I haven’t done this long enough.  I think the Burton website called this a med-flex boot. 

With all of that being said though, I realize I shouldn’t size up.  I haven’t made a purchase yet so when I try on that Ambush again, I’ll try to get on my toes and see if my heel lifts?  Nervous about the boot purchase because I keep hearing some boots (32’s) break in better over time.  The Thirty Two’s I tried on I thought were more uncomfortable than the Burton.

Posted: 05 October 2010 07:22 PM

Hold out for the 163W… It’s an all mountain board, you’ll want that extra length when it snows. I’m sure your local shop could order one in.

Have you tried vans boots on? They tend to put a lot of padding around the achilies (have I spelt that right?) and the liners pack-out quite a bit at the toe after a few days of treading around the house. So if you buy them with your toe just shy of the end of the liner, you know by the time they’ve packed out you’ll be in boot heaven! So snug they’re like riding in super responsive slippers. I’ve had Northwaves and 32’s but you’ll never get me to ride anything other than Vans now. Not the lightest boots though.

Posted: 06 October 2010 01:50 AM

Just try on the boots again and look for those points.  Don’t feel bad walking around the shop in them for a while, that will help you see how they feel and if they have any hot spots that potential can ruin your day later on.

I was on Burton Drivers, the stiffest boot Burton makes but it was sized too big.  I bought an old pair of 32s for $10 that had hardly been used so I’m going to start my season with them however I think they may be too soft for all-mountain riding.

I’ve had my eye on Burton Grails but I don’t think we’ll carry them (too high end for a big box store), a pair that I am digging that we have in are Ride Jackson Boa Coiler.  Pretty stiff (8/10), the Boa is a neat closing feature…  I like it better then the other quick-pull types.  Has a fuzzy upper boot cuff which will help with calf pain and are ridiculously light due to the blown-out soles.

I would tend to stick to a stiffer boot unless you plan on getting really technical with tricks in which you’ll want a softer boot to tweak out your presses and butters.

Oh, and the dealer is kinda right…  a rockered board allows you to ride a shorter deck without compromising float in powder.  Since you are still getting your bearings on the mountain I would take the shorter 159.  As you start to become a speed demon and hunt around the back-country for powder stashes then you’ll be craving a longer deck but that probably won’t be this season (but you never know). :)

Posted: 06 October 2010 10:49 AM

However, I only want to ride blue and black groomers, some trees and eventually graduate to some deep pow

My All mountain board is a 157-158 depending on which board I’m riding. My powder board is a 164. I’m 5 inches shorter than you and 20Kg less. If you want to have the versatility to blast black runs and ride pow, you’ll want the 163 at least. Length isn’t all about surface area, it’s about effective edge and nose and tail fore and aft of the bindings for stability. I rode the NS 158 SL and that provided me with enough float for riding pow confidently… I think 159 is too short for all mountain riding, for a man of your stature. If freestyle was high on the agenda then the 159 would definitely be worth a look, but the 63 is going to be better for what you want to ride.

Posted: 06 October 2010 02:55 PM

Thanks for both of your inputs. I already went ahead and had the shop order me the 163W as of yesterday afternoon. I can see why the NS rep told me it’s all personal preference because opinions on what size I should ride have certainly varied! I do appreciate all of your help in this matter though!

As for the boots, I’m a little stuck on boots. We’ve basically got 1 1/2 shops in town that carry anything snowboard related. I checked out a shop north of Chicago last weekend because I was there for a wedding and my buddy knows the Owner. I’m headed back this weekend and he’s going to outfit me with the board, bindings and boots if I want at a pretty good price! All of that being said, I haven’t found a boot there, or here in town for that matter that I love. Everyone I chatted with online said you really need to try them on as opposed to ordering them online? The 32’s I tried on seemed like they better suited a wider foot. The DC he put me in wasn’t very comfortable and he didn’t have the Nike’s in my size. There is a small shop here in town that carries Celsius and DC but they don’t get there boots until next week. Probably gonna pick up this Burton Ambush at the shop in Chicago unless I try on something more comfortable before then. Little bummed about that….

...and bindings… oh lord! Haven’t even gotten to that!

Anyway, very grateful for all of the input received on this site! It’s definitely helped educate me as to what it is I should be looking for in my equip!

Posted: 06 October 2010 03:12 PM

Yeah sorry for the conflicting info. Some peeps do indeed like to size down with their board, but until you know that’s what you want it’s always best to stick with the optimum size, then tweak your requirements with your experience. I think 163 will help with pow float, but be nimble on groomers too. Put it this way, if I was buying for a new ride for carving and backcountry I’d be looking at a 170… experience tells me I like long fast boards, there’s nothing like scaring the life out of yourself!

You really need to try the boots on before you invest. Each brand bases their design on a number of measurements that they consider to be the average foot size, so there can be quite a difference between brands. I always used to get a touch of heel lift in my Northwaves (this was back in 2001 mind) because the heel cavity was too wide for my foot. It’s a tough one, I’d hold out for a bit, unleast ‘til the shops get all of their stock in. Funny, I can think of over 10 snowboards shops in London and it doesn’t even snow here… spoilt for choice!

Posted: 06 October 2010 03:15 PM

And as for bindings: stay tuned for a binding buying guide which Rich will put up on the site as soon as he has found the time to!